Okay, I’m jumping to dialog since I don’t have a deep thought to share with anyone today. Apparently, Focus on the Family Action, the politicized version of the non-profit, sent out a “Letter from 2012 in Obama’s America.”(pdf)
It’s a terribly fearful letter about how the country’s on it’s way to hell in a hand basket if Obama gets elected. I’m not sure I believe them, nor do I think this kind of fear tactic is appropriate, nor do I think it’s very Christian, but nonetheless, it’s out there.
Some of the highlights of the letter (in 2012):
– The Supreme court leans liberal, 6 to 3.
– Terrorist attacks have occurred in 4 US cities.
– Christian doctors, nurses, counselors, and teachers have either been fired or quit.
– Iran perpetrated a nuclear attack on Israel, drastically reducing the size of its borders.
– Pornography is freely displayed.
– Inner city violent crime has dramatically increased due to gun control.
– Russia has occupied 4 additional countries.
– Gas tops $7 a gallon.
– Euthanasia becomes commonplace.
– Blackouts occur throughout the country.
– Homosexual marriage becomes law in all 50 states.
– Campus ministries, Christian adoption agencies and Christian schools nearly cease to exist.
– Home school families emigrate to Australia and New Zealand by the thousands.
– Bush officials are jailed and bankrupt.
– Taliban oppression overtakes Iraq and death of American sympathizers reaches millions.
– Homosexuals are given a bonus to enlist in the military.
My question, and it’s an honest one, is whether or not this is extreme or an accurate portrayal of what conservative Christians believe will happen by 2012 if Obama is elected?
dude… that is the most ridiculous thing i have read in a while. it pains me to know that this propaganda comes from the church. there are plenty of positive reasons i am an anabaptist, but this is one of the negatives that pushed me towards it as well.
Well, seems to me that might be ambitious for 4 years. Maybe by 2016? 😉
Come on, there is just as much silly stuff that come out of the Left as this, and it is often right out of the mouths of Democrat legislators rather than some fringe group. I remember well in the 1990’s when Republicans tried to slow the rate of growth of certain programs, that Democrat legislators railed that Republicans wanted to starve children and throw old people out in the streets. This was because Republicans wanted to have school lunch programs and benefits for seniors grow by something like 4% rather than the usual 6%. The pro-abortion crowd often likes to say that pro-lifers want women to be essentially sex slaves and baby factories. Obama this year has said that those who oppose him will remind people that he is black. Why not post those kinds of things and get upset?
There is total BS on all sides, and you should dismiss it all. Don’t get distracted and worked up over it, and don’t let it impact your vote. Ghandi supposedly once said that he would have been a Christian except for all the Christians. It is unfortunate that sometimes we turn off others by our behaviour. What really matters, though, is the truth. So, look at Obama’s and McCain’s proposals, look at what they have said in the past (since pols tend to say things just to get elected during campaigns, so what they have said off the record may be more indicative of what they really believe), look at who supports them to see if you are in sync with them, and look at what their parties stand for.
Aaron,
This isn’t some fringe group, it’s Focus on the Family (Action is their non-tax exempt political wing), James Dobson’s crew.
If I had friends and others who were sending me insane propaganda about McCain in the name of Christianity I would post it an rebuke it as well.
This doesn’t bother me so much as a political tactic or as someone attempting to be an informed voter, it bothers me as a Christian. I guess I’m with Ghandi on this one.
Well, as for the social part of the agenda, I honestly think that if you look at what some members of the democrat party constituency stand for, you’ll find support for all of the “social agenda” things listed in the email. Certainly there are those among them that are very anti-faith, support things like euthanasia, anti-home schooling, very pro-gay marriage, very pro-gay in the military, and who want to see Bushies prosecuted for war crimes. No, Obama is not pushing it from the top, but there are certainly those in the Dem party and on the Left that want to see those things happen, and that is who you are voting for when you vote for that party. Sorry, but you are not just voting for the person, you are voting for the crew as well. Will all that happen? Probably not, but it is not just completely outrageous and made up. Hyperbole, yes, but lies? Not really.
Whether anyone has sent it to you or not, propoganda like this is out there and has been out there from the other side for ever.
Write Dobson and show him point by point where he is wrong.
When I found this letter on line I was horrified. I wanted to immediately write to James Dobson and tell him that I think this is evil. For me, anything that focuses on fear or guilt to motivate people does not ring true to my understanding of Jesus, I have not been impressed by how George Bush has lived his Christian faith while in the white house, I am open to watching Obama live his faith if he is elected.
Seems like just a scare tactic to me. Either that or a real extreme view of what they think is going to happen. But like in any case, the left side has come up with some pretty crazy things about the right. It’s sad our country has come scare tactics at all. And also sad that a lot of people will not take the time to research and question things.
You know, I’ve been reading you for awhile now. Well over a year, I think. You wound up on my reader by accident, but I have left you there because you seem to ask some great questions, and while I have a policy of not trying to “define” Christianity, I enjoy reading your take on it.
I will tell you straight away that the Left does not do this. Know why? How would we? This is distributed through the networks of “Faith”, and the Dems have never really exploited the Church in that way. I get sick of people dismissing horrible propaganda as “something both sides do.”
Anyway, you keep on asking the gutsy questions. I’ll keep reading you.
@Cindy, thanks for your comments and honest.
@Momma, yeah, it’s sad. By the way, I’ll ask you too, if you’ve received any of this type of thing from the “left side” I’d love to see it, not much has ended up in my inbox yet.
@Mack, Wow, thanks for chiming in and for reading. Hope you chime in more, I’d love to hear your thoughts on some of the questions and topics I bring up.
I read the letter and the end notes for some of the points are interesting. The case could be made that the groundwork is falling into place. Also, if you look at some of the groups that have endorsed Obama and his pledges back to them, some of this is not far-fetched. The Supreme Court seems to be the focal point of the letter and everyone knows that the next prez will appoint several justices so it will either tilt left or right. Something to think about, that’s for sure.
Mack, you said it quite well. Thanks for that comment. This isn’t sensationalism from a group of Republican senators. It’s fear propaganda from a religious organization. Although religious organizations have never been above this type of thing througout history, so why would they be above it now? Who is to say half of this list won’t happen regardless of who the President is. I don’t think McCain comes with “Special Jesus Protection” included.
Aaron, Dobson is wrong on every point because it is all prediction and speculation. Way to spread the love of Jesus, Jimmy.
@Mack, the Left does this, they just disseminate it differently. Think 9/11 Truth or Rosie on the View. And Aaron’s right, you hear this kind of things out of Democratic elected officials in ways you’d never hear it out of Republicans.
Obama’s out there telling people that McCain is going to take $800 billion out of Medicare and Social Security. That he want’s to risk the whole of Social Security on the stock market, knowing full well that the proposal is optional and limited to something like 20%. He put out a purely false Spanish language ad.
Many news outlets ran (without any evidence, except suspicion and hopeful schaedenfreud ) stories accusing Sarah Palin of claiming her daughter’s child as her own to cover up the pregnancy, and accusing McCain of having an affair with a lobbyist.
The left brings out some garbage, too, it just gets a pass. They can say, “Whoops! My Bad!” and get away with it.
Joshua,
He’s not wrong on every point. With a D House, Senate, and Prez, it’s reasonable to expect the Freedom of Choice act to pass. It’s also pretty clear that taxes will go up significantly in every bracket, considering there’s no way you can do single payer health care with a 3 or 4 percent increase on the top brackets. That will have to be an across the board payroll tax increase.
I don’t think Obama is naive enough to repeat the UN Security Council idea in regards to Russia, but I do think he’ll let them steamroll a couple of smaller countries before he realizes he has to step up (or Republicans make another run in ’10 like 1994 based on security concerns). I don’t think Iran bombs Israel, because even Obama couldn’t come out looking good if he didn’t burn the country down after that.
I think it’s clear that a supermajority will pass socialized health care, and it will go just like it did in Canada and the UK. You can get stiches, but you can’t get surgery. Not for a few months (or years) at least. Hopefully it will go like Hawaii, and they’ll realize after a few months that it can’t be paid for.
Most of the rest is based on Obama having the opportunity to nominate 3 or 4 justices to the Court. If he gets that opportunity, one thing that is clear is that the unintended consequences of his decisions will be massive and long-lasting.
I think that if he’s as smart as he seems, he’ll do okay, which in this situation means he won’t repeat the mistakes of Jimmy Carter.
Charles,
Thanks for chiming in. Two quick responses…
I’d like to see the similar propaganda type examples your referring to from the left. Particularly Christians or religious organizations.
As to the supreme court, inform me if I’m mistaken. But aren’t the two seats that will probably be vacated during this next presidency two ‘left’ leaning justices? In other words, wouldn’t it be appropriate to replace them with somewhat similar judges? It seems with a half and half and one swing vote on the supreme court, we have the best balance and most reflective of the country as a whole.
If more conservative judges were elected to replace the liberal ones that would have the type of long-lasting partisan impact your referring to. Am I mistaken on this?
This is crazy, hateful and simply untrue. To pick two points for example, we know that Obama supports faith-based initiatives (how would already thriving Christian institutions cease to exist with the infusion of further government dollars?) and opposes equal marriage, which is a state-level issue anyway.
What’s driving this? I’ve learned a great deal from this blog post by staunch conservative Michael Medved. I strongly encourage you to read the whole thing: http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelMedved/2008/10/22/the_consequences_of_defeat
Basically, if you strip away the rhetoric, he’s saying that an Obama win will create huge new groups of enfranchised/empowered people who will then vote consistently Democratic for decades, ensuring left dominance for at least a generation. Let me say that another way: The far right has acknowledged that Obama wants to help people, and they think it’s probably going to work. The only reason why helping people is so scary is that it forms a counterpart bloc to a powerful group: conservative Christian voters.
This is absolutely related to this 2012 monkey business. James Dobson doesn’t want a new bloc with as much power as his. It’s silly, sad and demeaning to our entire political process.
@Ariah,
The left doesn’t do religious propaganda, it does anti-religion propaganda. Actually, it’s anti-conservative-religion propaganda. The Palin-wants-to-ban/burn-books kind. They also do lots of “conservatives are fear-mongers (and we’re not…we just tell the truth)” propaganda. But what is it – if not fear-mongering – to tell old folk that McCain will cut their benefits in half and risk all of their social security on the open market?
And I said specifically that the other aspects of the “prediction” relied on Obama having the chance to appoint three or four justices. You’re right that he’ll likely only appoint two, and thus maintain the balance.
@erin,
This may be a little crazy, and a little paranoid, but it’s not “hateful”. And it’s kind of silly to call an attempt at future-telling “untrue”. How could anyone know?
Obama may support faith-based initiatives, but if he has the opportunity to appoint a majority court, it won’t matter what he supports. It matters what the justices support. For that matter, if he has majorities in both houses, it only matters what Reid and Pelosi support, because he’s unlikely to stand up to the party (see his 97% D voting record – most loyal Senator – for evidence). If they want something, they’ll get it.
With the “state level issue” of equal marriage, if the court gets hold of it, it will become a federal issue, and he won’t try to block a big move by his own appointees.
“Enfranchised/empowered” is slanted language. That’s what you find if you strip away his rhetoric and add your own. I read the Medved article, and didn’t see it. What I did see was this: “The innumerable government programs launched by the New Deal may have done nothing to advance the overall interests of the nation or the economic system, but they performed magnificently at creating dependent interest groups who voted reliably Democratic for decades. If the government hands out goodies to various constituencies, those segments of the population will continue to support the idea of enriching themselves with other people’s money.”
What will happen is the welfare class will grow. These will be people who like getting a $3K or $4K “refund” check when they don’t pay any taxes to begin with, and won’t want it to go away.
Obama’s ideas, presented under the guise of “want[ing] to help people,” is simple socialism. I’m not using it as a pejorative, just the truth. And the unfortunate facts of socialism is that it hasn’t worked. Ever.
Every socialist country became a dictatorship scarred by extreme and widespread poverty, in which the gap between rich and poor was so great we couldn’t even imagine. From 1996 to 2005 the real income (purchasing power indexed to the cost of living) of the bottom 20% more than doubled. Those days are over if we add hundreds of billions of dollars in new entitlements to be paid for by higher taxes on our most successful citizens.
That’s a conservative point of view. One that honestly believes Obama’s policies are bad for the economy and for the people in the country. You’re free to say the opposite, and I think you honestly believe it. But us disagreeing doesn’t make me evil. And it doesn’t make Focus on the Family Action “hateful”.
Hi, Charles. I hardly believe you are evil. We all have different takes on different ideas, and it’s good for our country to have diversity of opinion.
I do, however, find attempts to plant hysteria like this 2012 memo to be hateful. It is not at all similar to your reasoned and well-explained approach. I would never conflate the two.
Erin, I can accept that. Though I don’t think this is an “attempt to plant hysteria.” I think this is one group’s interpretation of the worst case scenario. I think everything stated in the letter is possible. I don’t think all, or even more than one of them will actually happen. But they are all possible. And most, with the exception of the insulting idea that any US President or Congress would stand by and watch Russia retake eastern Europe, are things that are in line with Obama’s past and current positions.
I think this is just something to get discussions like this going. The people who will be convinced by it’s message didn’t need convincing.
@Charles: Thanks for clarifying.
I guess, one it doesn’t surprise nor bother me that non-Christians would resort to those tactics, it’s when Christians do so. That being said, I’d still be interested in the “fear mongering” emails or things you’ve received (even if they aren’t from “christians”)
As to the supreme court justice. Wouldn’t the reverse, a McCain win, be much more certainly the long-lasting lopsided supreme court outcome?
Just a quick thought, but if a president (dem or rep) recognizes that the country is nearly 50/50 in it’s views, they should recognize that and choose a similarly minded court? I think Obama should pick two more liberal (or completely unbiased if he could find any) justices and any additional should be replaced with similar leaning (conservative with conservative).
Is there any chance that will happen? Would McCain possibly pick two liberal justices to replace the current ones, or just one? Would Obama if he had to replace more then two? I don’t know, I’m asking a what if.
This would be relevant if someone was seriously proposing single payer health care.
Lets see it. Where is this “anti-religion” propaganda coming from the mainstream of the American left?
Once you can tell me how Obama is proposing that Government owns the means of production and distribution, then you may have a point about socialism. Do you know what socialism is?
Come on… seriously? They are trotting out this “worst case scenario” for what reason? To scare people. Period.
Ariah –
People do not vote for one party or the other in the hope that that party will then try to bring ideological balance to laws or regulations or the courts. Dems don’t vote for Dems in the hope that the Dem president will select court appointees that will bring balance to the courts. No, they vote for Dems in the hopes that a Dem president will select court appointees that reflect their views and philosophies. Same for the Republican side. So, no, it is no more reasonable to expect that McCain would replace liberal justices with liberal justices than it would be for Obama to replace conservative ones with conservatives. They will each select judges that reflect their philosophy and that of their party. Those are the spoils of winning elections. That is why parties want to win elections – not to bring balance, whether it is to the courts or any other part of government, but to put in place those people and policies that reflect their governing philosophy.
Here’s Howard Dean on Republican trying to starve children and make old people homeless:
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:ZC3tHYPssgMJ:findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3675/is_/ai_n8732458+%22starve+children+and+kick+old+people+out+of+their+houses%27+%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
Prediction by liberal journalist: “If McCain wins, look for a full-fledged race and class war, fueled by a deflated and depressed country, soaring crime, homelessness – and hopelessness!”
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:XzA7u59lwocJ:www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20080902_Fatimah_Ali__We_need_Obama__not_4_more_years_of_George_Bush.html+%22If+McCain+wins,+look+for+a+full-fledged+race+and+class+war,+fueled+by+a+deflated+and+depressed+country,+soaring+crime,+homelessness+%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
A nice shout out from a dailykos poster:
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:YpiEHb8Q8AYJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/24/113254/880+site:dailykos.com+christofascists&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us
“Christofascists, Christianists, Overbearing Jesus Freaks, Assholes of God, I don’t care just now what the fuck they’re called. They’re a pestilence.”
by bumblebums on Tue Apr 24, 2007 at 09:18:40 AM PDT”
Here they falsely accuse “Right Wingers” of murder:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/18/19572/0882/956/313315
Could not pass this up either:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/29/164649/932/365/197968
“Palin is a radical right-wing fundamentalist Christian who would love to create a theocracy . . . those non-evangelicals who back the McCain-Palin ticket do so at their peril. Not only will they continue to suffer four more years of the disastrous Bush policies; they will also find themselves living in a Christian theocracy.”
http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:f1SS58fz0m8J:www.counterpunch.org/cohn09112008.html+mccain+theocracy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=17&gl=us
Yes, the Left never does this stuff.
Ariah, back to my original point – Think for yourself and pay no attention to the nuts on either side.
@aaron: thanks, I figured I was probably dreaming. But, well, doesn’t that seem a bit odd? I mean we elect a president every four years, and I get that they make decisions about the supreme court, but, well, maybe we should vote on the supreme court? Or, have some sort of requirements or way to make that court reflect the balance in the country. Seems ridiculous I guess, but so does one election having so much influence over the laws and rule of this land for many many years to come.
Are there any countries out there that do it differently?
Ariah –
1) that is why you should vote carefully for the person who will appoint justices.
2) the senate must confirm, so there is your balance on the prez’s appointments
3) our model is copied the world over because it works so well, I mean, except in places like cuba, china, russia, etc.
4) the idea of making life appointments is so that justices, once in place, can be free from political pressures. they don’t have to please anyone, or buy votes, or gain favor unlike elected officials. this has has both good and bad going for it. this is also why the other two branches of gov’t are elected and not appointed for life – that has good and bad going for it as well.
checks and balances. dig?
Ariah,
I don’t get emails like this, from the right or left, so I have nothing to show you. But there are plenty of examples in Op-Ed pages across the country. Consider the twisting of Palin’s statements that made her appear to be calling the war in Iraq a “holy war”, and declaring it to be God’s plan. That was deeply misleading, and was broadcast much more widely than this email, or any other like it.
And McCain would have to choose justices that could be approved by what looks to be an incredibly liberal Senate. So that would prevent him from upending the balance.
Dave, point by point:
1. Obama may not be calling for single-payer system, but if we look at the results of Hawaii’s optional healthcare experiment, people will choose the “free” government care over private every time, with the probable exception of the very rich. I’m sure I would eventually.
2. See my comment to Ariah. Like I said, it’s “anti-conservative-religion”. Obama’s faith is considered thoughtful and acceptable, while Palin’s is considered frightening and authoritarian. And that’s just one example that played out in a number of major news outlets.
3. He doesn’t have to “propos[e] that Government owns the means of production and distribution” for his ideas to be socialist. He wants to raise taxes on some, to make payments to others in the form of tax credits. For example, my father-in-law’s taxes will go up, and my wife and I will receive about $3500 in additional tax credits, despite the fact that we have no tax liability. That’s socialism.
No, we’re not talking about a completely socialist system, but it is one that attempts to use taxes and government checks to reduce income disparity.
4. Trying to make people aware, and fearful, of possibilities is not “planting hysteria”. Otherwise it would be planting hysteria for Obama to be telling seniors that McCain wants to cut their benefits in half. Are you willing to call it that?
Ariah –
I posted several examples of this sort of thing from the Left, but they did not show up here.
Oh, Aaron, you know my super-liberal, propaganda-filtering, spam filters wouldn’t let that stuff get through 😉
(Aaron knows I’m joking, and everyone else should too). I’ll track those comments out of the spam filter right now.
Do you know that all names have hidden messages?
A Message In A Name
Look at the message hidden in Focus On The Family
“Yesterday, Satan’s invisible organization used fear, lies, negativism on Americans to help energize McCain’s failing Campaign.”
Cross out a letter of the name for example cross out the y in family and the word yesterday in the message. Keep doing this until all letters and words are crossed out and see the result.
Based on the Letter from 2012 it is clear that an invisible demonic force is in play with Focus on the family. Maybe everyone who reads this letter should also read the scriptures below that apply directly to Letter from 2012.
Ephesians 4:17 “This, therefore, I say and bear witness to in the Lord, that you no longer go on walking just as the nations also walk in the unprofitableness of their minds, while they are in darkness mentally, and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensibility of their hearts” Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say “Get out of her, my people if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.”
Tiny,
I’m sorry, I’m really confused what your talking about with the hidden letters and meanings and what not.
Ariah, my hobby is writing poetry. As with all writers, sometimes I’ll wake up in the middle of the night and start writing. During these quiet times, I actually, write some of my best poems. First let me say, I am not now nor have I ever been a registered voter due to religious belief. I am a law-abiding taxpayer born and raised in this country. I do not believe in horoscopes, luck, lotteries, palm reading, physics, predictions or any such things. I do not watch horror movies or overly violent movies, I try very hard to guard my spirit and I am very careful who and what I allow to come into my home. I was not pro-Obama, pro-McCain or pro-Independent however, as an African American I am proud that we will have our first African-American President something I never thought I would see in my lifetime.
Six months ago something so strange happened to me that even today as I write this email I don’t know why. On June 25th I woke up with an urge to write. I really did not feel like writing so I lay there in bed trying to go back to sleep. After about thirty minutes or so of trying to return to sleep, I decided to get out of bed find some paper, a pen and write what I was feeling. The first thing was A Message In A Name. I did not and still do not understand my urge to write a Message In A Name. For whatever reason I wrote Oprah Winfrey and found myself on the Internet looking up her middle name which is Gail according to Wikipedia. So at the top of the page was A Message In A Name and under that was Oprah Gail Winfrey. After about 30 or so more minutes of sitting wondering what poetry I was supposed to be writing about Oprah, it came to me that the letters of her name had a message.
I don’t know why I was compelled to write the below information especially because I do not vote nor am I part of the political system. The message in a name started with Oprah and Obama and ended with Focus On The Family and McCain. Again I do not know why God allowed me to know this.
I told a few of my family and friends but now that the election is over I feel I can speak to others about this. The only names I felt compelled to write are the ones listed below. I don’t know why this happened especially because I do not vote.
A Message In A Name means every letter represents a word every word represents a sentence every sentence represents a message. A Message In A Name does not seem to be limited to the names of people but the names of organizations as well.
If you cross out a letter in the name corresponding with a word in the message for instance cross out the “I “in Gail and the word “in” from the message and continue crossing out a letter and a word like next cross out the y in Winfrey and the word yesterday you will find you have crossed out all the letter and the corresponding words.
The message Oprah’s name held on June 25th was that Obama would win the election and I don’t know how that is possible. We all know that our names have meanings such as Donald means world leader etc. We even name our children specific names because of the meanings they have. Never in my life have I heard that names have messages until this election. This particular election I do believe is some type of phenomenon. I do not know why this happened but I do feel that President Elect Obama will bring peace and security to the world.
A Message In A Name
Oprah Gail Winfrey
“In yesterday’s historic election Obama wins race resulting in getting labeled nation’s first African American President.”
Obama did win the Presidency.
Stedman Graham
“Meyerton South Africa, African Nationalist Mandela receives historic teaching academy educating disadvantaged girls.”
Remember Oprah promised Mandela she would open a school in South Africa and she did in Meyerton South Africa for disadvantaged girls. .
Kelly Maria Ripa
“Yesterday, Kelly Ripa auditions and lands Regis Philbin Live after Margolis’s insightful interview episode”
Kelly Ripa auditioned and landed the job after Char Margolis told her she was pregnant.
Whoopi Goldberg
“Barbara Walters explains O’Donnell’s departure, Geddie hires Goldberg in place of Rosie O’Donnell’s leaving.”
Everyone knows Whoopi replaced Rosie
Focus On The Family
“Yesterday Satan’s invisible organization used fear, lies, negativism on Americans to help energize McCain’s failing Campaign.”