6 thoughts on “10/8 – Thoughts on Product(RED): Spending to Save Lives?”

  1. interesting stuff.

    i can see your point. let me counter a few things, if i may.

    first, i hear your point about consumerism, and i agree. however, if someone is going to buy a jean jacket anyway, i would rather they do it from a place like the gap and have a small percentage donated than buy it elsewhere and have none of it donated.

    i am sure there are people out there who will refuse to donate large amounts of money to a charity b/c they feel they have done their part by buying red, pink, etc. items in stores. however, i think that the people who regulary give to charities will not be fooled by this. maybe i am wrong, but…..

    and as far as sweat shops go….i don’t want to open up a can of worms….but i have a friend who is form indonesia and she thinks that US citizens are crazy when we talk about sweatshops. she said those places give LOTS of people jobs and really help people in many ways. she said that people who live in the US think that these people are getting ripped off, but that is b/c we do not fully understand that OUR standards are completely different then theirs. in otherwords, people in the US feel sorry for someone who doesn’t have a car or a TV, but in most countries, that is the norm.

    i’m not saying that sweatshops are good, but i thought it was very intersting to hear her perspective on it considering she has personal experience with it.

    all in all, i DO think the idea of spending more money so you can donate a dollar is silly. but, those are a few thoughts i have.

    Reply

  2. From what I can tell, the (red) campaign is not trying to re-model the way we think about spending or challenge “the American dream lifestyle”. Those kinds of challenges are needed, but, to be honest, not everyone is going to listen. The (red) campaign recognizes this and basically says, “Hey, we know you are spending money- now let’s skim some of that off the top to help other people.” I feel like I get what you are saying, Ariah, I really do. We don’t need a program that allows us to keep doing what we do and justify it by knowing we are making a difference somewhere- we need people to step out oftheir own lives and see the world in all of its great need and limited resources. Here’s the thing though: in an ideal world that would happen. But in a non-ideal world, we fight and push for that, all the while recognizing that other people are doing the same in their own ways. Some are inherently harmful and should be stopped while others target different groups and areas of need. I feel like the (red) campaign falls into this second category. It recognizes the reality that people are not going to stop spending money (or at least not any time soon) and so they are looking for a way to turn that money into something meaningful.
    You mentioned that a danger of this is that people can use it to a) justify spending and b) that it isn’t…extreme enough (paraphrase). I think an alternate danger on the reverse side (for us) is cutting something down that could be good, but doesn’t fit into our ideal understandings of what needs to change in the world. The (red) campaign may not be ideal, it may not be perfect, but it recognizes certain current realities and uses them to make a difference. It isn’t here to change those realities, just to do something significant with them.
    One more thought I had- you mentioned the GAPs human labor rights violations (I’m not sure if that was the exact phrase) and seemed to be citing that as a reason not to trust them in this new campaign. Shouldn’t we applaud an organization like GAP when they make an effort to change policies or at the very least take on new policies that benefit others? I’m not saying don’t hound them for the poor policies, but celebrate the good.
    One final thought, and this is for Jody. Jody, it is interesting to hear about your friends experiences. I would challenge you to spend a week woring in one to see if it isn’t all that bad. I don’t mean that rudely at all, I only mean that comparing people by relative standards has its dangers. Of course people that work their have a different take on the issue- who wouldn’t rather work than be unemployed (especially when you have a family to feed?) I am sure during the Great Depression, people were happy to take whatever jobs they could come across as well, but few people would agree that living during the G.D. was all that great.
    Also, there is economics to take into consideration. When multi-billion dollar companies are paying people in these countries 10 cents a day to work, are they being fair to that country, in light fo the fact that (and this does need to be done intelligently) they could be playing a significant role in the economic development (and thus educational, social, and health standards development) of that country?

    Reply

  3. nate, what you said about the Red program was a much more detailed outline of what i was thinking. well said.

    as for sweat shops, i see your point. i have always thought they were awful until my friend who grew up in indonesia and has lived in several other asian countires gave me her opinion. it is just one opinion, but it made me wonder. she also told me that it is “normal” to have kids working at a very young age, unllke in the US. she told me that we think its awful, but it is the norm over there. she told me it would cause all sorts of awful problems if these sweatshops were done away with and children were not allowed to work there. i’m still not saying its right and i am sure there are some really awful things going on in some of those places. but, my discussion with her about this has never left my mind. i guess i would like to hear more about this from people who live in these places and work there.

    but, i do hear you point and if i had to take a black and white stand on the issue i would say no to sweatshops. i would say they are awful. but, this enlightenment made me wonder.

    Reply

  4. I think you are right, this is a cool program in that it can open people up to the idea that their spending can have a power to make a positive impact.

    I want to give props to GAP for being part of it. And offer a partial defense…GAP is probably my favorite clothing store in the whole wide world. And I haven’t shopped there for 3+ years. But I haven’t really shopped at any clothing store in a long time.
    Gap ran into a lot of trouble in the late ’90’s about sweat shop labor. They are a very high profile corporation and got nailed. But they actually had pretty normal standards. Since they’ve done a lot to clean up, and undertaken (because of public pressure and internal policy) lots of accountability. My hunch is (and of course this is next-to-impossible to verify) that since that point, they’ve vaulted beyond most of our chains in the human rights policies they impliment in their stores. And I’ve been impressed by their public stance on certain issues. No matter what motivation they have (improved public image, whatever) they have still cleaned up quite a bit. So, as Mindy hinted, are they forever blacklisted? I had this conversation with Ben earlier this week about Walmart “going green.” If they become the ideal store, do we still avoid them because of the stigma? It’s so hard to know what actually goes on.

    Capitalism and consumerism is the most powerful force in the world right now. While it may be corrupt and promote greed and selfish values, it is established and not going anywhere anytime soon…so why not use the powers of evil for good? I’m not going to go get an American Express Red anytime soon just for kicks, but if they are going to be making money why not support them giving some of it back?

    Reply

  5. Thanks guys for sharing your views. I think your right on a lot of levels.
    I understand this is targetting a different group of people then myself, and in that way I think it’s good. At the same time, I think it falls short of what we really need in our world, and I don’t think it’s wrong to question it.

    As far as sweatshops, I’d love to hear more from your friend, especially if she actually works or has worked in the sweatshops. I’m certainly not an advocate of just doing away with factories that make clothing, there’s no way in the world people in the USA would let that happen, I just would argue they should be more ethical and meet basic human rights standards.

    As for GAP, Mel, I think they are making progress. And I think it’s your call as to supporting them and how. I love Taco Bell, when I was in sixth grade my plan if I became a millionare was to buy a taco bell. But then I learned about their unfair wages for tomato growers and pickers, and I was compelled to stop eating there (I learned late in the game though). Just last year they finally signed an agreement (someone said Shane talks about this in his book), anyways, now I’ve bought tacos there a few times. My point is, I’d love to hear about the decisions your making in regards to what you buy and where you shop. I’m still trying to figure mine out.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *